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T O P I C R E V I E WRandallGovernment Malpractice: ObamaCare was sold as a means to making health care more affordable. It even makes that claim in its official name. But its creators knew it wouldn't, and they forced the idea into law anyway.Obama adviser Jonathan Gruber seems to be carving out a new career as the go-to guy for those of us who were and still are opposed to a government takeover of the health care sector.Statements he made while the Democrats were crafting the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act show to what depths they sank to deceive the public to get the bill passed.First, Gruber once said that "the stupidity of the American voter ... was really, really critical" to the passage of ObamaCare. He gleefully admitted that "the lack of transparency is a huge political advantage" for ramrodding the bill through Congress.Now, thanks to the Daily Caller, the public knows that Gruber, who was an ObamaCare architect, knew that the "affordable" part of the Affordable Care Act was a lie and expressed it in an October 2009 lecture at Syracuse University."There's a real debate about what is affordable, and there's no right answer here," Gruber said in a talk that became a policy brief. "The problem is it starts to go hand in hand with the mandate; you can't mandate insurance that's not affordable."Cost controls, he said, could just come later, after everyone was covered. And one way to control costs, he explained, would be to tell patients "they can't have something they want."So along with a lack of affordability, there isn't full patient protection under ObamaCare, either. Patients can still be denied care.Three years after he made his remarks at Syracuse, Gruber said in a podcast — also exposed by the Daily Caller — that he wished "President Obama could have stood up and said, 'You know, I don't know if this bill is going to control costs. It might, it might not.'"On the other side of the aisle, however, Republicans were talking about ObamaCare's unaffordability. Rep. Paul Ryan of Wisconsin called it "a fiscal Frankenstein." Sen. Mike Enzi of Wyoming said that "this bill is anything but affordable."The kicker is the Democrats knew it, too, but publicly denied the facts all the way to the bill-signing ceremony and beyond. Honesty and openness were sacrificed for the sake of a bill that won't work as promised and the country doesn't even like.As Gruber has acknowledged, ObamaCare was written in a tortured way, not for effectiveness but for passage. That's not the way a representative government with constitutional limits should work. http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials-obama-care/123114-732840-obamacare-affordable-care-act-unaffordable.htm Catalina http://time.com/3643841/medicine-gets-personal/?xid=newsletter-brief JUst maybe the real medics will make it affordable with a little ingenuity and dedication, something the insurance business has made seem impossibleCatalinaGruber is an arse. A lot of doctors are not and they are tired of seeing patients fleeced. Obamacare had to be written to appease the insurance biz. .. this makes their approval irrelevantAcousticGodGruber has had to apologize for some comments made on this topic. http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/12/09/jonathan-gruber-on-hot-seat-heading-into-hearing/ jwhopJust to be clear here for the benefit of usual suspects, O'Bomber Kool-Aid drinkers and O'Bomber's drooling sycophants:CBO: Obamacare Would Cost Over $2 Trillion http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/cbo-obamacare-would-cost-over-2-trillion Got it now Droolers?O'BomberCare is going to cost US taxpayers 2 Trillion Dollars more than premiums collected. Here's the reason O'Bomber droolers.87% of O'BomberCare signees are getting their insurance premiums subsidized by the productive working people of America.The Affordable Care Act is a colossal LIE told by O'Bomber and his Socialist comrades in Congress. Record numbers of O'Bomber's Socialist comrades in Congress have been rewarded by voters who threw them out of office in 2010 and 2014..with more to follow. Good riddance.juniperbNo matter how one cuts it, it has been a very expensive nightmare . Under Obamacare, Medicaid has increased to the highest numbers imaginable in MI. Guess who pays for the largest portion of it.According to MotleyFool, the cost is just going to keep rising. quote:Looking aheadFor those who obtain coverage through their employers, the bad news is that organizations will probably keep shifting more costs to workers. For many Americans benefiting from federal subsidies for individual health insurance, 2015 could be a pivotal year. The U.S. Supreme Court is scheduled to hear a case that could lead to the unraveling of Obamacare in 36 states that don't operate their own health insurance marketplaces. There are a couple of things you can count on. First, health insurance premiums will continue to rise. Second, how much you actually pay for health insurance will continue to depend on lots of variables, especially the type of coverage and how much you're willing to pay out of pocket. Ultimately, there's no such thing as an average American when it comes to health insurance. Lets hope Obamacare is unraveled!! http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2015/01/04/heres-what-the-average-american-pays-for-health-in.aspx ------------------Christian, Jew, Muslim, Shaman, Zoroastrian, stone, ground, mountain, river, each has a secret way of being with the Mystery, unique and not to be judged. RumiAcousticGodCBO and JCT currently estimate that the insurance coverage provisions of the ACA will have a smaller budgetary cost than those agencies estimated in February 2014.20 CBO and JCT now estimate that the net cost to the federal government of those provisions for fiscal year 2014 will be $36 billion, $5 billion less than the previous estimate of $41 billion, and that the net cost for the 2015–2024 period will be $1,383 billion, $104 billion (or 7 percent) below the previous estimate of $1,487 billion (see Table 4).CBO and JCT have updated their baseline estimates of the budgetary effects of the ACA’s insurance coverage provisions many times since that legislation was enacted in March 2010. As time has passed, the period spanned by the estimates has changed, but a year-by-year comparison shows that CBO and JCT’s estimates of the net budgetary impact of the ACA’s insurance coverage provisions have decreased, on balance, over the past four years. The first part of this section describes the factors that led to changes in CBO and JCT’s estimates since February 2014, the second part summarizes the changes themselves, and the third part discusses changes in projected budgetary effects since the legislation was enacted in March 2010. http://cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/attachments/45231-ACA_Estimates.pdf "The net budgetary impact of the ACA's insurance coverage provisions have decreased, on balance, over the last four years."I'm all for wishing for better situations , but wishing this were unraveled would probably be unhealthy.juniperbAG, quote:but wishing this were unraveled would probably be unhealthy.How so? The bill in particular or the monetary fallout?------------------Christian, Jew, Muslim, Shaman, Zoroastrian, stone, ground, mountain, river, each has a secret way of being with the Mystery, unique and not to be judged. RumiAcousticGodI just mean that it doesn't solve anything. You get rid of Obamacare, and then you'd have a few years of trying to untangle what's been done. Is that going to be cheaper than a program that's already saving the government money? I just think we should hope for improvement. RandallSaving the government money? It's costing us $2 billion! How is that saving money? Unravel it? Trash it!juniperbUsing a knitting analogy,They could unravel without changing the pattern. The design can be changed but the basic pattern remains untouched. quote:Is that going to be cheaper than a program that's already saving the government money? How on earth has it saved the gov. money? If it has, is it because the taxpayers get knifed for higher premiums , deductables and tax fines ? More of their tax dollar going to fund free medical for state aid recipients? Certainly it`s a win-win for big pharm tho. ------------------Christian, Jew, Muslim, Shaman, Zoroastrian, stone, ground, mountain, river, each has a secret way of being with the Mystery, unique and not to be judged. RumijwhopFile this under..."Be careful what you wish for".So, wasn't it just wonderful when all those professors and union leaders were spouting off about the glories of O'BomberCare?They thought they were insulated against bearing any of the personal financial costs of the O'BomberCare crap sandwich.Well, now they've found out differently and outrage abounds. How dare anyone ask these leftist queens to pay more of the cost of their own healthcare...just like everyone else.Bye the way, the cost of O'BomberCare over and above what insurance premiums will fleece from policy holders is about 2 TRILLION DOLLARS. THAT'S TRILLIONS, NOT BILLIONS TO BE PAID BY TAXPAYERS. Nice going Marxist Messiah and your now unemployed congressional comrades.January 6, 2015The Obamacare soap opera gets better and betterBy Silvio Canto, Jr.They say in Latin America that telenovelas, or soap operas, get better week by week. Perhaps Obamacare will go down as one of the greatest telenovelas, because it is getting better every week.The latest episode involves Harvard University professors, as reported by The New York Times:For years, Harvard’s experts on health economics and policy have advised presidents and Congress on how to provide health benefits to the nation at a reasonable cost. But those remedies will now be applied to theHarvard faculty, and the professors are in an uproar. Members of the Faculty of Arts and Sciences, the heart of the 378-year-old university, voted overwhelmingly in November to oppose changes that would require them and thousands of other Harvard employees to pay more for health care. The university says the increases are in part a result of the Obama administration’s Affordable Care Act, which many Harvard professors championed. You can't make this up. Like some of the labor unions, the Harvard faculty is learning that "universal care" is a better speech than governing. It sounds great until you implement it and throw supply and demand into disarray.In the meantime, that fellow that you see complaining about health care at the next liberal meeting is probably a Harvard college professor. Just walk over, introduce yourself, and say two things:1) Hope and change.2) I feel your pain. http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2015/01/the_obamacare_soap_opera_gets_better_and_better.html RandallHaha! Harvard idiots!My bad, Jwhop. I was talking about $2 billion for just running the website. Yeah, $2 trillion is way worse! AcousticGod quote:Saving the government money? It's costing us $2 billion! How is that saving money? Unravel it? Trash it!Why are you asking questions I already answered? What's the point in that?"The net budgetary impact of the ACA's insurance coverage provisions have decreased, on balance, over the last four years." quote:Using a knitting analogy,They could unravel without changing the pattern. The design can be changed but the basic pattern remains untouched.I agree that, in theory, that is possible. quote:How on earth has it saved the gov. money?Because the government was on the hook for ALL medical expenses paid throughout the nation in cases where the citizen didn't have insurance or otherwise couldn't pay. I thought you guys already knew this. quote:Bye the way, the cost of O'BomberCare over and above what insurance premiums will fleece from policy holders is about 2 TRILLION DOLLARS. THAT'S TRILLIONS, NOT BILLIONS TO BE PAID BY TAXPAYERS. Nice going Marxist Messiah and your now unemployed congressional comrades.Care to source this, Jwhop? I ask, because that particular number is NO WHERE to be found in CBO estimates. Over one trillion can be found...spent over a series of years.Were you a victim of the commercial shown in this article?: http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2 012/jul/11/american-commitment/tv-ad-says-health-laws-cost-2-trillion-double-what/ From the article:The TV ad says that the health care law "could cost up to $2 trillion, double what we were promised." Actually, only part of the health care law -- the gross costs -- could cost up to $1.76 trillion. That’s only a slight increase from what was originally promised -- not close to double.The number also doesn’t account for the portions of the law that pay for that spending, both new taxes and cost reductions.The ad’s source -- the Congressional Budget Office -- specifically rebutted the charge that the costs had doubled, and they issued that rebuttal months ago. The CBO said that its latest estimates "are quite similar to the estimates we released when the legislation was being considered in March 2010."juniperb quote:Because the government was on the hook for ALL medical expenses paid throughout the nation in cases where the citizen didn't have insurance or otherwise couldn't pay. I thought you guys already knew this. If that were true, why do people file medical bankruptcy? ------------------Christian, Jew, Muslim, Shaman, Zoroastrian, stone, ground, mountain, river, each has a secret way of being with the Mystery, unique and not to be judged. RumiAcousticGodBecause they were unable to pay. Their inability to pay doesn't affect the medical community's need for payment (which is then sought from the government).CatalinaPeople who don't want debt hanging over them try to pay and if they can't Prove they can't pay bankrupt themselves in the Process. The last time I went to hospital I was informed they were NOT an "ability to pay" institution and that if I let them do any tests it would cost thousands. .. the doctor didn't bother examining my very painful hip but told me to take ibuprofen and rest, and charged me $1100 (discount because I was uninsured; if I'd had insurance the total would have been 1800) for ten minutes of his time.If you are earning anything the"inability" is generally not recognized. .. so only people willing to incur big black marks on their credit really get that option. If you have assets they will be in jeopardy...and so on and on.Meanwhile the non posters ' costs are factored into everyone else's premiums and taxes and all this by MANDATE of the oh so generous Ronald Reagan
Obama adviser Jonathan Gruber seems to be carving out a new career as the go-to guy for those of us who were and still are opposed to a government takeover of the health care sector.
Statements he made while the Democrats were crafting the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act show to what depths they sank to deceive the public to get the bill passed.
First, Gruber once said that "the stupidity of the American voter ... was really, really critical" to the passage of ObamaCare. He gleefully admitted that "the lack of transparency is a huge political advantage" for ramrodding the bill through Congress.
Now, thanks to the Daily Caller, the public knows that Gruber, who was an ObamaCare architect, knew that the "affordable" part of the Affordable Care Act was a lie and expressed it in an October 2009 lecture at Syracuse University.
"There's a real debate about what is affordable, and there's no right answer here," Gruber said in a talk that became a policy brief. "The problem is it starts to go hand in hand with the mandate; you can't mandate insurance that's not affordable."
Cost controls, he said, could just come later, after everyone was covered. And one way to control costs, he explained, would be to tell patients "they can't have something they want."
So along with a lack of affordability, there isn't full patient protection under ObamaCare, either. Patients can still be denied care.
Three years after he made his remarks at Syracuse, Gruber said in a podcast — also exposed by the Daily Caller — that he wished "President Obama could have stood up and said, 'You know, I don't know if this bill is going to control costs. It might, it might not.'"
On the other side of the aisle, however, Republicans were talking about ObamaCare's unaffordability. Rep. Paul Ryan of Wisconsin called it "a fiscal Frankenstein." Sen. Mike Enzi of Wyoming said that "this bill is anything but affordable."
The kicker is the Democrats knew it, too, but publicly denied the facts all the way to the bill-signing ceremony and beyond. Honesty and openness were sacrificed for the sake of a bill that won't work as promised and the country doesn't even like.
As Gruber has acknowledged, ObamaCare was written in a tortured way, not for effectiveness but for passage. That's not the way a representative government with constitutional limits should work. http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials-obama-care/123114-732840-obamacare-affordable-care-act-unaffordable.htm
JUst maybe the real medics will make it affordable with a little ingenuity and dedication, something the insurance business has made seem impossible
CBO: Obamacare Would Cost Over $2 Trillion http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/cbo-obamacare-would-cost-over-2-trillion
Got it now Droolers?
O'BomberCare is going to cost US taxpayers 2 Trillion Dollars more than premiums collected. Here's the reason O'Bomber droolers.
87% of O'BomberCare signees are getting their insurance premiums subsidized by the productive working people of America.
The Affordable Care Act is a colossal LIE told by O'Bomber and his Socialist comrades in Congress. Record numbers of O'Bomber's Socialist comrades in Congress have been rewarded by voters who threw them out of office in 2010 and 2014..with more to follow. Good riddance.
Under Obamacare, Medicaid has increased to the highest numbers imaginable in MI.
Guess who pays for the largest portion of it.
According to MotleyFool, the cost is just going to keep rising.
quote:Looking aheadFor those who obtain coverage through their employers, the bad news is that organizations will probably keep shifting more costs to workers. For many Americans benefiting from federal subsidies for individual health insurance, 2015 could be a pivotal year. The U.S. Supreme Court is scheduled to hear a case that could lead to the unraveling of Obamacare in 36 states that don't operate their own health insurance marketplaces. There are a couple of things you can count on. First, health insurance premiums will continue to rise. Second, how much you actually pay for health insurance will continue to depend on lots of variables, especially the type of coverage and how much you're willing to pay out of pocket. Ultimately, there's no such thing as an average American when it comes to health insurance.
Lets hope Obamacare is unraveled!!
http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2015/01/04/heres-what-the-average-american-pays-for-health-in.aspx
------------------Christian, Jew, Muslim, Shaman, Zoroastrian, stone, ground, mountain, river, each has a secret way of being with the Mystery, unique and not to be judged. Rumi
CBO and JCT have updated their baseline estimates of the budgetary effects of the ACA’s insurance coverage provisions many times since that legislation was enacted in March 2010. As time has passed, the period spanned by the estimates has changed, but a year-by-year comparison shows that CBO and JCT’s estimates of the net budgetary impact of the ACA’s insurance coverage provisions have decreased, on balance, over the past four years.
The first part of this section describes the factors that led to changes in CBO and JCT’s estimates since February 2014, the second part summarizes the changes themselves, and the third part discusses changes in projected budgetary effects since the legislation was enacted in March 2010. http://cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/attachments/45231-ACA_Estimates.pdf
"The net budgetary impact of the ACA's insurance coverage provisions have decreased, on balance, over the last four years."
I'm all for wishing for better situations , but wishing this were unraveled would probably be unhealthy.
quote:but wishing this were unraveled would probably be unhealthy.
How so? The bill in particular or the monetary fallout?
quote:Is that going to be cheaper than a program that's already saving the government money?
How on earth has it saved the gov. money?
If it has, is it because the taxpayers get knifed for higher premiums , deductables and tax fines ? More of their tax dollar going to fund free medical for state aid recipients?
Certainly it`s a win-win for big pharm tho.
So, wasn't it just wonderful when all those professors and union leaders were spouting off about the glories of O'BomberCare?
They thought they were insulated against bearing any of the personal financial costs of the O'BomberCare crap sandwich.
Well, now they've found out differently and outrage abounds. How dare anyone ask these leftist queens to pay more of the cost of their own healthcare...just like everyone else.
Bye the way, the cost of O'BomberCare over and above what insurance premiums will fleece from policy holders is about 2 TRILLION DOLLARS. THAT'S TRILLIONS, NOT BILLIONS TO BE PAID BY TAXPAYERS. Nice going Marxist Messiah and your now unemployed congressional comrades.
January 6, 2015The Obamacare soap opera gets better and betterBy Silvio Canto, Jr.
They say in Latin America that telenovelas, or soap operas, get better week by week. Perhaps Obamacare will go down as one of the greatest telenovelas, because it is getting better every week.
The latest episode involves Harvard University professors, as reported by The New York Times:
For years, Harvard’s experts on health economics and policy have advised presidents and Congress on how to provide health benefits to the nation at a reasonable cost. But those remedies will now be applied to theHarvard faculty, and the professors are in an uproar.
Members of the Faculty of Arts and Sciences, the heart of the 378-year-old university, voted overwhelmingly in November to oppose changes that would require them and thousands of other Harvard employees to pay more for health care. The university says the increases are in part a result of the Obama administration’s Affordable Care Act, which many Harvard professors championed.
You can't make this up.
Like some of the labor unions, the Harvard faculty is learning that "universal care" is a better speech than governing. It sounds great until you implement it and throw supply and demand into disarray.
In the meantime, that fellow that you see complaining about health care at the next liberal meeting is probably a Harvard college professor.
Just walk over, introduce yourself, and say two things:
1) Hope and change.
2) I feel your pain. http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2015/01/the_obamacare_soap_opera_gets_better_and_better.html
My bad, Jwhop. I was talking about $2 billion for just running the website. Yeah, $2 trillion is way worse!
quote:Saving the government money? It's costing us $2 billion! How is that saving money? Unravel it? Trash it!
Why are you asking questions I already answered? What's the point in that?
quote:Using a knitting analogy,They could unravel without changing the pattern. The design can be changed but the basic pattern remains untouched.
I agree that, in theory, that is possible.
quote:How on earth has it saved the gov. money?
Because the government was on the hook for ALL medical expenses paid throughout the nation in cases where the citizen didn't have insurance or otherwise couldn't pay. I thought you guys already knew this.
quote:Bye the way, the cost of O'BomberCare over and above what insurance premiums will fleece from policy holders is about 2 TRILLION DOLLARS. THAT'S TRILLIONS, NOT BILLIONS TO BE PAID BY TAXPAYERS. Nice going Marxist Messiah and your now unemployed congressional comrades.
Care to source this, Jwhop? I ask, because that particular number is NO WHERE to be found in CBO estimates. Over one trillion can be found...spent over a series of years.
Were you a victim of the commercial shown in this article?: http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2 012/jul/11/american-commitment/tv-ad-says-health-laws-cost-2-trillion-double-what/
From the article:
The number also doesn’t account for the portions of the law that pay for that spending, both new taxes and cost reductions.
The ad’s source -- the Congressional Budget Office -- specifically rebutted the charge that the costs had doubled, and they issued that rebuttal months ago. The CBO said that its latest estimates "are quite similar to the estimates we released when the legislation was being considered in March 2010."
quote:Because the government was on the hook for ALL medical expenses paid throughout the nation in cases where the citizen didn't have insurance or otherwise couldn't pay. I thought you guys already knew this.
If that were true, why do people file medical bankruptcy?
If you are earning anything the"inability" is generally not recognized. .. so only people willing to incur big black marks on their credit really get that option. If you have assets they will be in jeopardy...and so on and on.
Meanwhile the non posters ' costs are factored into everyone else's premiums and taxes and all this by MANDATE of the oh so generous Ronald Reagan
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